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Indeed, the "range obsessed" media just do not get it. Don't forget that they are also acceleration obsessed. They could help to focus on the "real world" if they thought back to the time before combustion engines. The well known phrase, horses for courses, recognised that there were different demands and different solutions for horsepower. So, in the "real world", the average UK car journey is 8.4 miles and 80% of cars rarely travel further than 40 miles. The vast majority of two car families and many one car families can utilise a small range car very successfully. Time the average motorist (who buys and maintains the cars and pays for the fuel) setting off from start and they typically take 6 seconds to reach 30 mph. I read one article in which the author wondered if the MX-30 was fast enough to keep up with traffic! Finally, I am well used to this debate, often with people who have travelled just a few miles to be there, and remind them that I do not need to take a tonne of batteries to the golf club. And I am not demeaning those who like to push our lovely little cars to the limit and travel long distances using public chargers. That is just not for me and if I wish to travel to Scotland then I will be powered by petrol engine.
 

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Indeed, the "range obsessed" media just do not get it. Don't forget that they are also acceleration obsessed. They could help to focus on the "real world" if they thought back to the time before combustion engines. The well known phrase, horses for courses, recognised that there were different demands and different solutions for horsepower. So, in the "real world", the average UK car journey is 8.4 miles and 80% of cars rarely travel further than 40 miles. The vast majority of two car families and many one car families can utilise a small range car very successfully. Time the average motorist (who buys and maintains the cars and pays for the fuel) setting off from start and they typically take 6 seconds to reach 30 mph. I read one article in which the author wondered if the MX-30 was fast enough to keep up with traffic! Finally, I am well used to this debate, often with people who have travelled just a few miles to be there, and remind them that I do not need to take a tonne of batteries to the golf club. And I am not demeaning those who like to push our lovely little cars to the limit and travel long distances using public chargers. That is just not for me and if I wish to travel to Scotland then I will be powered by petrol engine.
Milkfloat we are on the same page here. Acceleration, or how fast is it reasonable for a car to be. 3 seconds to 100 kmh has that got anything to do with normal traffic??? I dont know. Does the average driver realistically master that kind of power? What about kids, dogs other cars and accidents? Inexperienced drivers?
On a race track sure go ahead do what you like. Not my problem.
Great point Milkfloat.
What car? likes the way the MX 30 drives but are not happy with the way the biggest battery car, Ford Mach E, drives. Come on guys. The driveability of a car is not improved by a huge battery pack. Is anyone surprised?


Great to see good stuff coming out of the UK like this from What car.
Not everything is getting out of the UK these days. Tried ordering biscuits for a daughter from Fortnum and Masons. They no longer deliver to the EU because of Brexit. Nope. What can you do?
Bake your own?
 

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Interesting review of the MX-30 in Forbes (I can’t get the link as behind a paywall). As usual lots of plus and minus comments. The most interesting quote in the review is from an analyst…


Felipe Munoz, global automotive analyst at JATO Dynamics, agrees that Mazda has been slow in its electric car policy but the MX-30 has some plus points.

“It’s true, it is not the best EV you can get out there. But unlike most of the offers, it is an SUV, which is the remarkable aspect of this story. While Renault, Honda, Fiat, Nissan, Volkswagen have started their electrification race in the traditional (and sales decreasing) segments with their hatchbacks, Mazda dared to enter this era with an SUV. Of course, it is not perfect, but it is one of the very few electric small SUVs you can buy today. So, I would say that the little range is the price you pay to get a modern electric SUV. It’s bigger than a (Hyundai) Kona, (Peugeot) 2008, and more modern than the Kia Niro,” Munoz said.
 

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Drove over 4K now and so far the limited range hasn't been a problem at all.
Just once i had to use a public charger, and that was because my wife was worried where not going to make it home.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
At the Tokyo Motor Show the MX-30 was unveiled with a 35.5 kWh battery and an electric motor capable of producing 142 horsepower (105 kW) and 192 lb-ft (264 Nm) of torque.

The range is expected to be 130 miles (~210km) for the European model, which is likely using the WLTP testing standard. Which means the EPA range could be a bit lower at around 120 miles (~193km).

120-130 miles may not seem like a lot at first glance but I know it’ll be more than enough for my daily commute. However, it might not enough be for others.

With that being said, what does everyone else think about the range?
Mazda has announced their EPA range numbers for the MX-30 and are claiming it will be able to have an EPA estimated rage of 100 miles.

The MX-30 can easily be the ideal companion for daily commuting with an EPA estimated range of 100 miles on a full charge.

 

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Mazda has announced their EPA range numbers for the MX-30 and are claiming it will be able to have an EPA estimated rage of 100 miles.

The MX-30 can easily be the ideal companion for daily commuting with an EPA estimated range of 100 miles on a full charge.

Understanding EPA range
OK so here we have it, the official EPA range for the MX-30.
100 miles or 161 km.
Its crap, lets get depressed, what was I thinking buying this piece of junk?
Well the EPA is calculated differently from e g WLTP. For starters its a bit more highway heavy than WLTP.
But the dealbreaker is the final calculation. They put our mutual friend from Hiroshima on a dynometer or a treadmill in a lab. Then it goes through a number of cycles until the battery is empty. Then the range is multiplied by 0,7 to make the range more "realistic" .
Thats a whopping 30%.
That's what makes the EPA a tough shit, you dont get any favours, test.
So on the dynometer in the lab it made it 143 miles. In other words summer, stay off the highway range.
Bottom line: This comes as no surprise. For your daily needs 100 miles is plenty. Interestingly Mazda US offers MX-30 buyers a free loan of another Mazda 10 days yearly for three years. That sounds like a terrific idea.
Mazda Europe, that is a concept you could implement well, like tomorrow?
 

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At the Tokyo Motor Show the MX-30 was unveiled with a 35.5 kWh battery and an electric motor capable of producing 142 horsepower (105 kW) and 192 lb-ft (264 Nm) of torque.

The range is expected to be 130 miles (~210km) for the European model, which is likely using the WLTP testing standard. Which means the EPA range could be a bit lower at around 120 miles (~193km).

120-130 miles may not seem like a lot at first glance but I know it’ll be more than enough for my daily commute. However, it might not enough be for others.

With that being said, what does everyone else think about the range?
Bought mine last week after really giving my actual needs a reality check. At first I wrote it off because of the EPA 100 mile range prediction. I'm 72 and the MX30 is a second vehicle with the other being a '20 Mazda MX5 RF. Basically I'm the only driver in the house and lucky to put 250 miles a month on a vehicle. I live in So. California where chargers are readily accessible, 6 in fact are within walking distance from my house + home charging. No regrets, this car is a pleasure to drive very cohesive with all the safety features and the BOSE 12 speaker audio system is acoustically the best I've ever had in a new vehicle. It's not for everyone, but if it fits your lifestyle you won't regret it!
 

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We knew what we were buying, a well handling car with a small battery and quite limited range. Today it performed quite well in -17C. The consumption was high, well above 25kW/100km mostly due to the need for heating between shopping facilities while parking outside in the cold. Range in such cold temperatures is less than 150km. This year I have driven once further than that. We have a VW Tiguan for extended range. It has been driven only twice since we got the MX-30 last month...

Seb
 

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We had a Kia Soul, Tesla Model S, and a Kona, and all used our wall box for heating up the battery and cabin, therefore not eating into the battery range. But the Mazda uses its own battery for that purpose, even when plugged in. That’s crazy!
Yeah, I think the MX-30 uses the 12volt system for HVAC/battery heating, the 12V system is powered by the (standard automotive) 12V battery, which is charged by a DC-DC convertor off the HV battery when the "ignition" is on. It appears Mazda didn't think to have a direct plug to 12v system for powering it when plugged in.
 

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The 12 volt battery is only 42 amperehour capacity and drives all auxiliaries and the high voltage relays. The main EV battery carries out all heating duties. Powering the heat pump and heated screen/seats and any battery heating has a significant effect on range and comes with the double whammy of reduced battery performance at low temperature. Charging the 12 volt battery off the main charging supply would add cost/complexity and provide little benefit.
 

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The 12 volt battery is only 42 amperehour capacity and drives all auxiliaries and the high voltage relays. The main EV battery carries out all heating duties. Powering the heat pump and heated screen/seats and any battery heating has a significant effect on range and comes with the double whammy of reduced battery performance at low temperature. Charging the 12 volt battery off the main charging supply would add cost/complexity and provide little benefit.
Can accept that a PCT would be run from the 355volt supply, but European cars use a heat pump, and I would be very surprised if Mazda had custom heat pump unit built for this single model of car when 12 volt automotive heat pumps already exist off the shelf.

I have found a diagram of the HV system (this, I believe, is for the Japanese market model so has a PCT rather than a Heat Pump) and it makes no mention of the screen and seat heaters, which again are almost certainly standard 12v parts as used on other Mazda models. Since the this car is built on the Mazda3 platform, I would imagine anything not unique to the EV model would be run from the 12volt system.

Automotive parking light Wheel Car Tire Vehicle


Oddly enough, the same Mazda service document also suggests that the HVAC does not drain HV battery when charging:


To extend the cruising range

  • By performing the following operations, power consumption while driving can be suppressed and the cruising range can be extended.
    • Operate the air conditioner with the charging connector connected to bring the inside of the car to a comfortable temperature before going out.
    • When it is cold while driving, use a seat heater or steering heater instead of the air conditioner.
    • Adjust the air volume and set temperature of the air conditioner conservatively
    • Refrain from using Defogger except when the windows are cloudy or frozen.
    • Unload unnecessary luggage and reduce vehicle weight
    • Avoid unnecessary sudden starts and accelerations, and make smooth starts and accelerations
    • Drive at a constant speed as much as possible without overspeeding
    • Check the tire pressure diligently and always adjust to the specified air pressure.
    • By keeping a sufficient distance between vehicles and using the regenerative brake well, more power can be charged to the drive battery.




Sources:
 

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In order to defrost and heat a car like the Mazda on a very cold day, it needs about 1500 Watts of energy (though, as ever with Mazda, we dont know the exact number which could be a little higher as the car warms up quite quickly). The heat pump is used because it pumps energy from outside to inside and only requires about 600 Watts to provide the same 1500 Watts to the car interior. Of course, the power consumed by the heat pump is dependent upon the external temperature and that varies. The ratio between energy to the car and energy to the heat pump is called the coefficient of performance. So, if one preheats the car including at least blower and heated rear window and mirrors then the electrical load will be well on the way to a kilowatt. Now, the 12 volt, 42 ampere hour battery could only power that system theoretically for about half a hour. However, rest assured that if you are ever stranded in a snow drift, put the heating on low and you will be able to run it all night. So, not the 12 volt battery. That doesn't mean that the components operate at 355 voltts; of course they don't. Preheat your car on a frosty morning and see how the SOC changes over 15 minutes then work out the approximate amount off energy consumed.
 

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In order to defrost and heat a car like the Mazda on a very cold day, it needs about 1500 Watts of energy (though, as ever with Mazda, we dont know the exact number which could be a little higher as the car warms up quite quickly). The heat pump is used because it pumps energy from outside to inside and only requires about 600 Watts to provide the same 1500 Watts to the car interior. Of course, the power consumed by the heat pump is dependent upon the external temperature and that varies. The ratio between energy to the car and energy to the heat pump is called the coefficient of performance. So, if one preheats the car including at least blower and heated rear window and mirrors then the electrical load will be well on the way to a kilowatt.
Indeed, the heat pump is a great device and I'm glad Mazda have seen fit to use them for the European market instead of a PCT (which they appear to be using in other markets, see my post above).

Now, the 12 volt, 42 ampere hour battery could only power that system theoretically for about half a hour. However, rest assured that if you are ever stranded in a snow drift, put the heating on low and you will be able to run it all night. So, not the 12 volt battery. That doesn't mean that the components operate at 355 voltts; of course they don't. Preheat your car on a frosty morning and see how the SOC changes over 15 minutes then work out the approximate amount off energy consumed.
Ok, now I never suggested that the 12volt battery would be used to drive the heat pump (this is a straw man argument), only that it would be driven from the 12v system. i.e. the DC/DC convertor which takes the 355v from the HV battery, and down steps to 12v for the electrical systems which the Mazda3 platform specifies. To suggest that the automotive heat pump (which are available for 12volt supplies) is driven by the HV battery would require its own DC/DC convertor, unless you know of a heat pump which can be run from an HV supply (and they might well exist for EVs now, I'm just not familiar with any).
 
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