[Parker77]

Couple of quick questions please. For the preconditioning facility on the app to work, does the A/C system in the car need to have been 'on' when you turn off the power (and leave the car)? And does the preconditioning warm the HV battery pack at all? Thanks.

 

[Thebriggie]

Q1 I always have ac off. However remote function is for climate control so it should make no odds. Try it and see is the way to be 100% confident
Q2 No is the simple answer.

Alan

 

[Parker77]

Thanks again Alan. I'll give it a go tomorrow morning before I go out.

 

[Thebriggie]

Just tried it. Makes no odds AC on or off👍

Alan

 

[Parker77]

I successfully preconditioned my car using the App this morning. It took me a while to realise that I have to tap and 'hold' the fan icon for a couple of seconds for it to work but then all was well. But, I'd been expecting a gentle whirring sound when in operation whereas, on startup, it was more like lowering the anchor on an oil tanker! Never mind, it's the warmth that counts

 

[Thebriggie]

Mmmmm.. you can hear it but I didn't think it was that loud except once when I was parked at Leith Oil Tanker Terminal. It was horrendous but I thought that was just a blip but the overall noise was just a drop in the ocean ⚓

Alan

 

[h5n1xp]

Hang on, I'm confused... The MX-30 is supposed to have a thermally managed battery.

And does the preconditioning warm the HV battery pack at all?

Q2 No is the simple answer.
Alan

But from this website Preconditioning :

Does preconditioning help the battery?
Lithium-ion batteries are based on electro-chemical reactions that are slowed by cold weather. During the winter, the battery provides less energy and will lose its charge more quickly.

Preconditioning warms the battery to optimum temperature using power from the mains, which will help preserve the cells. The knock-on effect of this is longer battery life and the preservation of the car’s potential range.

 

[Parker77]

That's what I expected when I read that the MX30's BMS includes thermal management but it seems that any heating only comes on at very low, sub minus temperatures, as per the offered 'winter DC charging updates'. Bit disappointing I must say.

 

[Thebriggie]

We are talking preheat of car as opposed to ev batteries hence the confusion. Heating the car may have a minimal effect on the high voltage batteries but nothing near to the actual ev battery heater itself.

Auto heating according to this forum does not kick in until around -15

Alan

 

[Parker77]

Cheers Alan. However, the article quoted by h5n1xp seems to me to indicate that cabin and battery heating will happen at the same time . Perhaps that's the case in "more sophisticated cars" as referred to in the article, but not in the Mazda.

 

[Thebriggie]

Yes, looks like a generic statement as for example when charging and preheating this does not apply to the mx30. Our car draws from the battery not the mains and although charging does top up the battery during preheat the input does not match the output hence this statement does not apply;

"Crucially, when the car is plugged in, electricity is drawn from the mains and not the car, so this has no impact on driving range. You start your journey with a full battery."

So the second statement about preheat the ev batteries from the mains can no longer also be true on our machine.

If we did preheat the mx30 ev battery at lower temperatures we would also see the soc drop overnight when not plugged in....which has never happened to me so far..

So in conclusion I wish we could find some definitive statements on what mx30 ev battery preconditioning is or is not available on our car and, if so, when on automatic when does it click in!

Alan

 

[Parker77]

Thanks again Alan. So, as for the MX30, preconditioning is cabin only unless it's minus 15 and we have to be grateful for that. In my own case, my car is kept in an integral garage which is de-chilled by some ambient heat from the house so preconditioning isn't as critical for me as it is for some.

 

[Thebriggie]

I am in the process of dropping an email to Mazda uk asking for a definitive explanation of battery heater and preconditioning functionality. At the moment yes cabin only, no manual ev battery preconditioning in settings or app and automatic still appears to be well below 0 before functioning..watch this space!

If anyone knows anything different HELP!!

P.s I do wish Mazda would put more technical detail online about this model and its features including it's ev battery to reduce the questions we raise, debate and ponder...which I must admit I do also enjoy. An online video question and answer forum would be brilliant!!

Alan 🤞

 

[Parker77]

Well done for going directly to Mazda UK. It'll be interesting to see how helpful they will be - keep up the good work Alan 👍

 

[Milkfloat]

Hello wall!

 

[Thebriggie]

Pink Floyd comes to mind...yip I do agree but as they say if you don't try...

They did reply to one of my previous emails about the car. It went...talk to the dealer..aargh. The dealers, and I apologise if any of them follow this, know about as much as we do it feels!

🤞

Alan

 

[Thebriggie]

I have heard back from Mazda uk. The good news is I got a full explanation of how the battery heater system works. If the car battery heater detects an active charger it will use that to provide dc power to the heater. What it does not state explicitly is if all the dc power goes to the heater or if it is shared. The battery can also provide the power to the heater whilst not charging but obviously that will chew battery charge. Having read many posts on this forum that certainly was not what I was led to believe regarding charger usage IF 100% of the power is directed to the heater. I thought it did use the charger power to keep the battery charged at the same as the heater drew power from the batteries. Live and learn!
But it does have implications for those who have their charger on a schedule. I also do not know if it overrides the car charging schedule. The huge disappointment was they admitted they did not know what temperature it automatically started. I have politely ask them to go back to the Japanese engineers and ask for the battery heater default temperature setting.

I attach the edited response. I would be really interested to know if my interpretation is wrong or if someone spots something I have missed

It also throws open the question regarding cabin heating and if that also can directly draw power from the charger whilst in use albeit possible sharing it with the battery?

Alan

• Outline

• With the high voltage battery, the charging and discharging performance is lowered by decreasing the lithium ion's activation in extremely cold environments. The battery heater system assures the charging and discharging performance by heating the battery module.

• The BECM turns on the battery heater contactor based on the information from each sensor, such as the condition and temperature of the high voltage battery, and the electrical power from the high voltage battery is supplied to the battery heater.

• The cooling plate is warmed from heat generated by the battery

• The battery heater is integrated with the cooling plate


Operation

• If the high voltage battery temperature decreases below the specified value, the BECM turns on the battery heater contactor, and electrical power from the high voltage battery is supplied to the electric heating wires of the heaters.

• When the battery heater is activated while the high voltage battery is charging, electrical power from the charging equipment is supplied to the battery heater.

• The battery heater circuit has a thermal fuse. If the battery heater contactor cannot be turned off due to a vehicle malfunction, the temperature fuse will blow and the circuit will be cut off to prevent the high voltage battery from overheating.

• When the battery heater stop conditions are met, such as when the high voltage battery temperature rises to a certain temperature, the BECM turns off the battery heater contactor and stops supplying power to the battery heaters.

• The battery heaters are operated when the BECM receives an operation request signal from the PCM, even if the main power is switched OFF.

• The operation status of the high voltage battery heater and the necessity of charging can be checked using the Connected Service. (When Connected Service use contract is valid)
.

Operation

• When the BECM detects that the high voltage battery temperature is the specified value or less, it sends a battery heater drive request signal to the PCM via CAN communication.

• Under any of the following conditions after receiving the battery heater drive request signal, the PCM sends a battery heater operation request signal to the BECM via CAN communication.

― High voltage battery state of charge (SOC) is specified value or more

― Charging connector is connected

• When the BECM receives the battery heater operation request signal from the PCM, it operates the battery heater relay and the battery heater.

• The BECM turns off the battery heater when the high voltage battery module temperature increases to the specified value.

• The BECM determines if the battery heater needs to be operated periodically.


Inhibition conditions

• When the BECM detects any of the following conditions, it inhibits battery heater system control.

― Battery heater operation is turned off by operating center display

― Main power is not switched OFF

― Vehicle is parked for long period (5 days or more) with charging connector connected

― High voltage battery state of charge (SOC) is specified value or less


Operation condition display function

• When the main power is switched ON (READY off or on) after the battery heater control is operated, the instrument cluster displays the content related to the battery heater operation on the multi-information display.

• When the PCM detects that battery heater control is stopped during battery heater control, it sends information related to the battery heater operation to the user's Smartphone by the Connected Service via the Mazda server. (When Connected Service is enabled)

Block diagram

 

[Parker77]

S'truth, life was so much simpler when I had a 2CV! 😲 Thanks for posting all that Alan. I think that it all makes sense but as you say, the temperature threshold is still denied us. Just wondering if anyone on here has ever received any notification of activation on the multi information display or smartphone? At least, Mazda have come back with a proper (if incomplete) response this time and haven't referred you to the dealer! 👍. P.S. Now all you've got to do is to get us the definitive answer from Mazda to the door rattle issue and you can have the rest of the month off. 😀

 

[Milkfloat]

I admire your perseverance Alan, particularly as we live in a climate in which the battery heater will rarely operate, assuming that the set point is what we think it is.
However, consider the following statement, "When the battery heater is activated while the high voltage battery is charging, electrical power from the charging equipment is supplied to the battery heater".
Now, the key words are "when charging". So, if I put my car to charge on a cold night and it charges for some 3 hours, the battery heater will not need to operate because the process of charging the battery warms it. So, it sounds good but it is a daft statement! Then, when the battery is charged, the Newmotion charger will be tripped off. If battery heating is required, say, 2 hours later when the battery has cooled down, then nothing will be drawn from the charger because, though it is still connected, it is switched out. Some of the logic described beats me.

 

[Thebriggie]

Milkfloat, agree hence my statement about scheduling. If it could overide the car schedule that would be good, but it probably doesn't. Lots of owners use the charger schedule not the car so as you and I say that 100% screws it.

Although it may happen rarely its good to know the trigger point!

Also thinking through the cabin preconditioning, that uses the heatpump not electrical wires so perhaps it definitely draws from the battery not the charger so that is slightly different.

Thoughts?

Alan