[Parker77]

With the range extender model (apparently) coming in 2022, what are your thoughts as to future values and desirability of the pure BEV MX30? I suspect that the RE model will be considerably more expensive than the BEV but would the arrival of the RE reduce the BEV to the status of a quirky dinosaur? I for one hope not!

 

[Chris Jansen]

With the range extender model (apparently) coming in 2022, what are your thoughts as to future values and desirability of the pure BEV MX30? I suspect that the RE model will be considerably more expensive than the BEV but would the arrival of the RE reduce the BEV to the status of a quirky dinosaur? I for one hope not!

I don't think so because the all electric range of the RE-EV(or is it EREV?) will be much lower then 200 km. So for people who like to drive pure electric and don't need more range than the 200 km the range extender makes no sense. Also maintenance will be more expensive for the range extender and most countries (I'm in the Netherlands) there will be less financial benefits.

 

[h5n1xp]

Everything Chris said, plus it's also worth thinking about a couple of other points.

I would be surprised if many (any?) European markets will get the Range Extender model, I think Mazda will be careful not to dilute the market. In North America on the other hand the pure BEV MX-30 has been deliberately supply limited, as they know the limited range will be far less practical in that market, and they have prepped that market specifically for the Range Extender model.
Secondly I would be surprised if we don't see a significant improvement in battery technology within the next 4 years. Even the most basic MX-30 is relatively high spec for an EV in its price bracket, and the battery is very easy to swap out. I think we will see both official and aftermarket battery upgrades in the coming years, which should keep the desirability of the BEV MX-30 relatively high (or at least competitive). Dealers will probably swap in larger capacity battery in second hand PCP vehicles.

 

[Thebriggie]

Personally extender not required for a once or twice a year long drives. Cheaper hiring a car than all the additional costs that go with RE model. Plus some countries such as Norway would penalize you heavily for going back to fossil fuel. Pure ev is the future at the moment and I think that the extender was always a US and possibly Australia option giving the commuting distances and Europe a secondary market. As for value...who knows what second hand ev's will fetch going forward. A lot depends on guarantees and as h5n1xp states battery upgrades or replacement technology going forward. I would NOT go back to any form of ICE car unless no other option was available. Personal choice at the end of the day.

Alan

 

[Parker77]

Interesting. I like the idea of the battery upgrade after, say 4 years, h5n1xp, but I would imagine that would require a major software transplant as well. We'll have to see how it all turns out.

 

[h5n1xp]

Interesting. I like the idea of the battery upgrade after, say 4 years, h5n1xp, but I would imagine that would require a major software transplant as well.

The car's battery management software should have no difficulty with different battery sizes, and should the main ECU need a software upgrade, that is already a routine maintenance task (just search the forum regarding software upgrades).

We'll have to see how it all turns out.

Indeed, the EV market his extremely young, replacing a market that is over 100 years old in maturity... We can only speculate.

I would also add that we are seeing the Charging networks grow (in the UK at least), and over the next few years range anxiety with small battery EVs will probably seem a quaint notion... Though I hope Mazda up the charging current rate in a future software update, as it seem they are currently limiting the maximum DC charging rate to 1C probably in an effort to prolong battery life.

 

[jceedv]

Has there been word on how much the REX will add? Here in the US, the Volt was considered a REX and had a pretty long "HV" range. On the other hand, BMW i3 had a REX model that added 75 (?) miles only (which admittedly, doubled the EV only range). Of course, the bigger benefit is the ability to refill that 75 miles in a minute or two instead of hours on an EV charger

 

[h5n1xp]

Has there been word on how much the REX will add? Here in the US, the Volt was considered a REX and had a pretty long "HV" range. On the other hand, BMW i3 had a REX model that added 75 (?) miles only (which admittedly, doubled the EV only range). Of course, the bigger benefit is the ability to refill that 75 miles in a minute or two instead of hours on an EV charger

No official word, but I think we can reasonably expect around 80 to 100 miles of range extension.

 

[Milkfloat]

Though I remain sceptical about the REX ever happening, Mazda design intent is to retain the same battery pack as the BEV. That means that the place where the fuel tank sits on the ICE car is occupied by battery. So, the fuel tank has to be sqeezed in and to enable that to happen, its size has to be small. Design target is to double the range of the pure BEV but that could be a stretch.

 

[Charlie]

Personally I think, in the UK (and wider European) market at least, it would dilute the product and the message. A REX is still an ICE engine at the end of the day, classed as a hybrid, and would instantly remove many benefits of the MX 30 being a BEV for example London CC exemption etc.
I've noticed that UK reviews of the MX 30, when inevitably talking about range, tend to fixate on the polar opposite extremes of either "city" driving or that of some mythical isolated countryside. I, (and surely many millions of folks like me) however, live in a sort of country/suburban sprawl, living on the outskirts of a small town with other similar small towns and villages all within a sort of 30 mile radius, with various shops, family, sports clubs, schools, interests etc dotted here there and around. I charge at home, and 100 miles is about my weekly range anyway, so the current MX 30 is a perfect fit. And I do need the additional size offered by the Mazda. Again, the range of the car means that reviews automatically compare it to the Mini Electric and the Honda E, but neither of the those vehicles offer similar abilities in lugging stuff about. I'm not talking about the, again archetypal "trip to the tip", I'm just talking about the weekly shopping.

 

[keithbowman10]

With the range extender model (apparently) coming in 2022, what are your thoughts as to future values and desirability of the pure BEV MX30? I suspect that the RE model will be considerably more expensive than the BEV but would the arrival of the RE reduce the BEV to the status of a quirky dinosaur? I for one hope not!

Not concerned about the second hand value at the moment as I plan to run the car for 6 years. In that time there will be an even greater selection of vehicles with greater range. My original decision will still be valid in that 90% of my journeys involve a total of 20 miles on a commute.

 

[VivaMazda]

Though I remain sceptical about the REX ever happening, Mazda design intent is to retain the same battery pack as the BEV. That means that the place where the fuel tank sits on the ICE car is occupied by battery. So, the fuel tank has to be sqeezed in and to enable that to happen, its size has to be small. Design target is to double the range of the pure BEV but that could be a stretch.

According to well informed but informal sources the idea is to keep half the battery and sell the Rex version at roughly the same price. 😢

 

[Parker77]

Ah, that might work. It's going to be very interesting to see how it's received when it's released. It might come down to how annoying the drone of the Wankel might be as, with a battery half the size, it's going to be coming into play pretty often. Very interesting bit of information there VivaMazda - thanks.

 

[Charlie]

According to well informed but informal sources the idea is to keep half the battery and sell the Rex version at roughly the same price. 😢

This story pretty much confirms what you're saying here.
Everyone’s Right About Mazda’s Wankel Range Extender Plans, And That’s Weird

 

[Parker77]

Thanks for that post Charlie. I'm not sure whether I'm less or more confused now but I understand that it's unlikely that the REX BVE would keep the 35.5 battery. I wouldn't bet on the REX being available in '22 but who knows?

 

[VivaMazda]

This is getting pretty interesting.
The choice of serial hybrid is unusual in itself. This sounds a bit like an Austrian drivetrain, the Obrist Hyper Hybrid. Never put inte mass production I think. Similar size battery 18 kWh, small engine to charge the battery. The question remains if there will be enough power to go up a steep mountain in the winter when the battery is used up?
For the coming CX 60, a bigger car, a more conventional setup is planned. A parallell hybrid, both drivetrains can be used to propel the car forward.

 

[Milkfloat]

The i3 range extender was just that and not a conventional hybrid and BMW dropped that.

 

[VivaMazda]

The i3 range extender was just that and not a conventional hybrid and BMW dropped that.

Well if they manage to get enough power from the rotary engine at a set RPM this is perhaps not a bad idea. i3 allegedly struggled in that regard with its REX. If performance is poor it all falls apart. Longer trips by definition often involves highways and going uphill at speed.
So you wonder about performance and you wonder about CO2 and consumption.
Is fossil fuel in any form good news? Probably not but this is where it gets kind of complicated. If you live in a country where electricity is sadly generated mostly from coal, oil is it a given that a super thrifty serial hybrid is worse for the planet than a BEV? But then if this really was crazy thrifty why dont we see more serial hybrids today? We are intrigued.
Cant wait to see some specs on this one.

 

[Milkfloat]

That's an interesting point VivaMazda. I don't know how much power the MX uses at 110kph on the flat but I'm guessing in the order of 25 or so kW. Of course, going up hill requires more. So, the obvious answer is to have an engine more than 25 but probably less than 40kW. With a deliberately flat battery, some motoring journalist will find a circumstance uphill, against the wind with 2 elephants in the back seat when the engine won't hold speed. This is how those motoring "allegations" are born. Clever use of software so that the battery always holds a reserve is probably a solution but it still feels like too much engineering and cost for a tiny market to me.

 

[Parker77]

.......... Clever use of software so that the battery always holds a reserve is probably a solution but it still feels like too much engineering and cost for a tiny market to me.

. My understanding of how a Rex system works could be written on a postage stamp but I would have expected the generator element to kick in at around, say 50% SOC and not at near to empty, thereby maintaining a decent charge at all times. But, whatever the detail, I agree that the extra engineering involved could be prohibitively expensive and provide too many additional elements that might go wrong.